The video below claims that the #1 mistake slap bass players make is that when the thumb is positioned vertically instead of horizontally across the fretboard, it prevents learning advanced techniques.
Do you agree? Or do you think “it doesn’t matter as long as it sounds right”?
Post a comment or two after watching the video and let us know what you think.
I strongly disagree here. This is just the same old “slap through” vs “bounce” slap technique argument.
First, thumb angle is usually based on the height you have the bass. Have it hanging a bit lower (TM Stevens, Flea, etc) and your thumb naturally angles down. Nothing wrong with it, just use whichever feels natural for the height you have your bass (standing of course).
Second, do you care about double thumb technique? Not everyone does, I personally don’t but I’m fine with other players liking it. People who who use the slap through also bring up speed, but Louis Johnson, Mark King, and Flea all do the bounce technique and no one is going to tell them that they need to play faster.
Well said
Seconded
I third that emotion
Meh, I guess it doesn’t matter. Never really thought about it.
While I tend to agree that there is not right/wrong way to thump a bass- this dude does a good job explaining the physics of efficient/accurate thumpin’. Two thumbs up! (pun intended)
Thump and Pluck….that is what his technique is. Other than that he us correct.
The #1 mistake of playing slap bass is the decision to play slap bass. 🙂
That is how I feel about it.
Tell that to Norwood Fisher!
There is no “wrong” in my opinion.
Striking with the thumb perpendicular to the strings gives a different sound to parallel: I use both.
You think? I’d think the excitation of the string is caused by it hitting the neck — the thumb just sends it in that direction.
I agree with this completely, although he’s right, if you are successful doing it what he describes as “wrong”, well, then, more power to you.
It’s only a mistake b/c double thumping is in style. Flea’s had a pretty good career using a vertical technique.
I think the number one mistake slap players make is not practicing with a metronome.
Amen!
Thank you!! It has really helped
It makes sense to me, but I don’t play that style, so what do I know. I totally agree that a strng technical foundation is the key to success with any musical endeavor.
Yup!
It is not a mistake, just ask Flea. That vertical thumb is a specific technique and should be in your bag of tricks ALONG WITH the horizontal technique that allows for double thumbing. It is not one or the other.
Flea has had some success with the “wrong” way
I get what the Wizzard is trying to say, but I don’t think there si a “propper” way to slap. If it “sounds” correct (as he says) it IS correct. Maybe you wont be able to play like Marcus Miller, but you can play as you like to. Tell Flea that he has been playing “wrong” for many years… I think he’ll be pleased.
Who is this guy?
I’m learning to play slap bass because it’s there, and a challenge. But I’m not sure it’s music.
I hear what he’s saying but I say, whatever works for you. Hmm, just imagine if someone told Larry Graham when he first started thumping his bass,”Hey, that’s not the right way to play bass”!
Call yourself a ‘wizard’? fail.
Over critique a simple thing and call it wrong? fail.
Criticize every guitar player who plays and teaches bass? fail.
There’s a whole stack of humility missing here. I’ve played both ways, both work. Really, the last we need is more MM clones.
agreed: humility would serve you well, Marc- you’ll get there– we are here to help
I really like this video. I’ve been through exactly what he’s talking about. I had a ton of speed playing with a vertical technique for my thumb, but it ended up holding me back because I couldn’t do any of the advanced techniques that he’s talking about. If you just want to slap and pop, vertical technique works great, is really comfortable, and you can build up a lot of speed with a lot less effort. If you want to do learn techniques like double thumbing, raking, thumb/finger picking, etc. you need to have your bass a bit higher up and keep your thumb parallel with your strings. Yes, Flea’s had a lot of success and is a great player, but he just slaps and pops. He doesn’t use any advanced techniques, which is the point of this video. All around, this is good stuff. If you don’t like it, just do what works for you. Check out Wojtek Pilichowski and Andy Irvine and see what using “proper” technique can do.
Wizard is correct. It is a mistake to use a vertical thumb technique, due to it being more restrictive. One can both slap, and double thumb using a parallel thumb technique. With vertical thumb one is restricted to slapping only. Therefor it is better to teach novice bassists to use parallel thumb. James Jamerson was successful with one finger. Does that mean it’s as good a technique as using two? I don’t think so.
Technique, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder! Marc’s technique certainly is good but, so are the many others, that is why music is so beautiful and creative!!!
There is an easy way and a hard way to do most things, just because Flea, etc. hit the notes does not mean they are conserving energy and motion.
Learning the proper techniques for execution makes breaking the rules, i.e. throwing out technique to create new textures, allows a player to be more versatile.
slapping is not bass its overused learned to do it and never used it sounded good when played for 1 bar. Learn from simandel or ray brown method to do this for hours to be the worlds fastest slapper is truly a waste of valuable learning time jeff berlin and jaco didnt slap there is nobody who sounds like them or plays as well no matter how fast or much they slap
Abe Laboriel does it so “wrong” that his technique hardly even falls into this category. Ain’t nobody arguing with his playing, though. My thumb switches position according to which slap technique I’m using at the moment. Saying that there’s only one right way to do things goes against the entire history of modern music. Nice try, though.
He is completely right. Just look at Flea. He has to work very hard on very simple and easy patterns. If you want to play like that, there is nothing wrong with it. Just be aware that your technique will be very limited.
As someone who has been playing with slap bass techniques since 1976, I totally agree about keeping the thumb parallel to the strings, but I’m confused about this guy’s emphasis on thumbing “through the string.” I think it’s only useful if you’re considering it to be a hybrid technique that combines slapping and double thumbing. Bouncing the thumb creates a much more percussive attack, and it feels much more natural to do, especially when you factor in popping. As for double thumbing, to me it’s a totally different technique and should probably be addressed as such. It is very cool in the right hands, though. Give a listen to Doug Rauch – that’s where Marcus got his whole double thumbing trip from (and he’d be the first to tell you that!)
Yep! Doug Rauch. That’s true. To each his own and just because one player does it this way, doesn’t make their method superior or inferior.
As someone who has been playing with slap bass techniques since 1976, I totally agree about keeping the thumb parallel to the strings, but I’m confused about this guy’s emphasis on thumbing “through the string.” I think it’s only useful if you’re considering it as part of a hybrid technique that combines slapping and double thumbing. Bouncing the thumb creates a much more percussive attack, and it feels much more natural to do, especially when you factor in popping. As for double thumbing, to me it’s a totally different technique and should probably be addressed as such. It is very cool in the right hands, though. Give a listen to Doug Rauch – that’s where Marcus got his whole double thumbing trip from (and he’d be the first to tell you that!)
Jeebus, did we really need to hear a minute and a half explanation of why learning bad technique is bad?
If you get into slap, and find yourself wanting to do modern techniques, you’ll adjust- this seems like this cat is just using the opportunity to bash guitar players: negatives in teaching are equivalent to bad teaching. Sorry, I may stand alone here, but that is how I see it. To the bass teacher here: brighten up your presentation and choose your words carefully- watch Scott’s bass lessons, he may not be the most scientific teacher ever, but nary a negative thought to be heard- just encouragement- start there, and you’ll be on your way.
This whole discussion, or any discussion of technique for that matter, is irrelevant if you can’t groove or use slapping in a musical context – otherwise, you’re doing a solo bass gig or you’re one of those guys who shows off at the NAMM show.
Louis Johnson, Mark King, Flea…and this guy is………..? “Those who can, do….,etc,….
I am also of the camp that says, “keep the thumb parallel to the strings when slapping” ….. and I have been playing bass for more than 48 years. I am not a big-time slapper and popper, but I have been employing the slap technique that is shown here since the mid-late 1970s.
Not that I’m an expert at slapping, but I can honestly say I’ve never seen any bassist I know slap with their thumbs in the ‘down’ position. If they don’t have their thumbs parallel to the strings, then they’re generally giving a ‘thumbs-up’ as they slap (a technique I’ve been trying to experiment with, but as Marc said, old habits are hard to unlearn.
Honestly, I think it’s whatever is most comfortable and gets you the desired result(s). I’m primarily a rock player, so I don’t really have much call to slap during my rock gigs, but on some of the recent jazz-ish gigs I’ve been playing, I’ve been slapping quite a bit more, but my technique (parallel to the strings), while not exactly masterful, seem to get the job done (at least I keep getting hired, so I must be doing something they like).
Wizard: 1) NEVER put anything down in a video presentation- it’s cheap and unprofessional 2) any means a person engages to play is valid as long as they are making valid music ( if someone wanted to play ” power ” finger style , if it sounds good, so be it . 3) best of luck
Agreed- humility is the key ingredient
Take it easy, everybody! He said it’s a mistake IF…and then he went on to make his point, which he was actually correct about. If you want to sound like Marcus, you need to keep the thumb horizontal. Anyone (including myself) who has been a pro bass player for many years realizes that there is no right or wrong, especially since the bass guitar is really more or less a bastardization of the upright bass anyway (I know that’s a very inflammatory statement but it happens to be true, admit it you snobs.)
Sound like Marcus? Why not sound like yourself?
To me i think vertical positioning is great for those floppy thumb pinky slap style, it gets heavy and fast, and usually winds up being kinda spastic, but great for the guys who use it, like fieldy, flea, robert trujillo and so on, but if you wanna get fast and articulate, then go with horizontal, cause you have more control and you can double thump, also you can mute some of the strings with your forearm or palm, but personally im so used to horizontial, its hard for me to go vertical
Everyone needs to check Flea out in concert… he plays some stuff thumb down. However, when he is kicking it, the thumb becomes almost parallel. Thumb down is limited, but can be flashey to watch. Thumb parallel makes it possible to do many, many more techniques, create sound, control the strings and dynamics and is much better to preserve your muscular/skeletal system in your shoulder, arm. wrist and hand. Thumb down is like any technique, a little dash may be fun and add something to your own experience, but once mastering thumb parallel, you will be able to play licks by Flea, Victor and all the other greats with similar authority, sound quality, difficult licks and your recordings will jump off the disc at you by comparison. I rarely use thumb down now… every since I had the opportunity to record with a couple of top flight producers/bass players that shared their secrets with me, my playing, confidence and income have all increased proportionately. In fact, I’ve ran into a couple of tours that the musical director and engineers tactfully made it perfectly clear to use the style that best compliments the mis and in these cases, fulfilled the style of the music… thumb down! It takes longer to master and is a lot of work to get it down right, but you will be so proud and so happy with yourself and the extra cash ib your pocket, you may switch completely. Me… I have figured out a few techniques in the down position that offers a little different spice, and hey… some people thinks it looks cool…. but if you want to see the thumb master, there are many. But, I strongly encourage you to study the techniques developed by 1. Stanley, 2. Victor, and 3. Marcus…. They are the best, they are the masters…. and it appears that when I see them in concert that the thumb down is nothing more than a possible occasional spice? or possibly just a way to joke around and have fun… like thumb up with the bass bethind your head!
Just look at the photos with this article that depict the awkward hand position pointing back at the bridge. I hope he has a good hand doctor! That pretty much wraps it up.
Thumb parallel is the proper technique, period! Players that have not mastered thumb parallel need to start woodshedding, they’ll be happy they did!
Please check out the two linked clips…Alain Caton and Brian Bromberg. ..thumb parallel and thumb down…There is no right or wrong unless you can’t express your music due to a technique deficiency.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Z6cxNqA_A&feature=youtube_gdata_player
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcsjlFFBU6M&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Thumb parallel to the strings is much faster, but you need to wear the bass higher, so you have to get past that hurdle if you are committed to low-slinging. I actually tried to play like Flea and Feildy because I love what they do, but you just have so much more control and speed, just think about how your wrist works. Another problem I had with the vertical thumb is hitting other string inadvertantly. -Pat Finn , Old Light
This is an issue that really seems to polarise, almost as much as notation or tab. I taught for many years using the technique that works for me (parallel) but had some students who made a success of thumb down. If it fits and works for you just do it is my approach.
I think we all need to remember that the instrument we love so much is still very young and there are many players who are older than the instrument itself. My point is that playing techniques are not set in stone and will continue to develop over many years. I hope we can all be open minded enough to embrace new ideas when they arise rather than write them off as being the wrong thing to do when none of us really has any right to judge what is a young instrument. How long did it take to come up with current ‘accepted’ ways of playing the violin or trumpet? Are they locked in to those ways so much that we aren’t going to see new ways of creating music on those, more established instruments?
Please don’t let that happen to our instrument, let us continue to pioneer playing techniques, equipment and all things bass. After all where would the instrument be today without people like Ron Wickersham, Anthony Jackson or even Leo Fender himself? Without their genius rock, funk, punk and many other styles wouldn’t exist, Jaco, Marcus, Mark King, Victor, Tina Weymouth, Mike Watt and a multitude of players of many technical levels and indeed, all of us wouldn’t have an instrument to play.
Let the bass player lead the music world in creativity!
He titles his video ” the biggest mistake……” Etc. – If he is going to profess absolutes, he will be subject to what comes- it is through that process he will learn to refine his presentation, as painful as it can seem. As to your remark on the electric as a bastardisation, it’s original intent was total separation from orchestral stringed instruments. Current designs are removed from the orchestral design even further still. Bastardized, probably not. It belongs to the Guitar family.
The #1 mistake in slap bass is NOT KNOWING WHEN TO YOU USE IT … Particularly when playing with others…”how” you slap matters not…who cares!!! If your technique gets you the “sound” you’re looking for, who CARES!!! LOL …playing slap bass on a soft ballad….yeah—mistake. LOL playing slap bass with whatever technique you like on a funky tune…..ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!:-)
He’s right! Just hold your hand in front of you and move your thumb. The mechanics of your hand dictate the most efficient thumb position (parallel to the strings). If you want to play those intricate and often difficult bass lines, efficiency and control is part of the technique. And that applies to both hands.
Funny, this guy plays a Marcus Miller siganture and talks about proper thumb position… Marcus Miller himself plays slap with a full right hand thumb UP (vertically) and surely can outplay this guy… facepalm you.
I didn’t see anyone mention Brian Bromberg. Check out his “slap technique” video on YouTube. He plays thumb-down and is nothing short of amazing. In the video he explains why it works.
His explanation makes all the sense on the world
Brian’s, I mean
Is he cool?
Technique differences are part of the personality of each player, and that is what makes each player have his or her own sound. This is a good thing for all of us, we came from somewhere and all of these combinations are what makes music so interesting.
no one has ever bothered to explain volume and tone settings on the bass or settings on the amp to achieve a good sound for slapping. I have watched a ton of these videos and I cannot get my bass to sound right.
Fresh strings, eq the midrange down on your amp, lows and highs even, pickups both wide open, or, if you like, favor the front pickup just a touch- hope that helps– major factor, fresh strings – and a scooped out mid– if you can afford it, get an optical compressor- it will even out the dynamic just enough– hope that helps